An interview with Laszlo Bock, Google’s Sr. VP of People Operations, recently appeared in The New York Times “Corner Office.”The purpose of the interview was to find out how Google is using Big Data in their hiring practices. There were a number of interesting points that are right in line with my recent blogs on how to find a CFO.
Laszlo Bock: “Part of the problem with evaluating [sic] leadership is that it’s very driven by gut instinct in most cases – and even worse, everyone thinks they’re really good at it. The reality is that very few people are.” He explained that they had done a study of Google’s hiring practices and found zero relationship between how people scored candidates in the interview process and how they later performed. This is at once amazing to me and not surprising at all; it is one thing to interview for an individual contributor, another for a manager, but at the top, interviewing for executive leadership is an entirely different art in which few are well trained.
Expanding on Mr. Bock’s thoughts about leadership, we have to once again talk about what executive leadership is, what are the key elements we look for in an executive, and how to evaluate leadership. The truth is, relying on your gut won’t cut it, and very few people are trained to conduct effective behavioral interviews to ferret out if someone’s exterior qualities match their true interior character.
Leadership According to Google
Mr. Bock talked about some of the elements of leaderships they look for. “Leadership is a more ambiguous and amorphous set of characteristics…We found that, for leaders, it’s important that people know you are consistent and fair…In terms of leadership, success is very dependent on the context. What works at Google or G.E. or Goldman Sachs is not going to be the right answer for everyone. I don’t think you’ll ever replace human judgment and human inspiration and creativity [in the interview process], because at the end of the day, you need to ask questions like, ‘O.K., the system says this. Is this really what we want to do? Is that the right thing?’”
Don Draper: Gravitas or Groveler?
In my last blog about Gravitas, I chose the picture of John Hamm in the role of Don Draper from the hit TV show, Mad Men. Because if you met Don in a real live interview, you’d probably think, “Wow, has that guy got Gravitas.” While on the surface he appears to be a confident, capable ad guy, once we dig deeper, Mad Men fans know how messed up he really is!
Putting Big Data in the Big Picture
Certainly for a corporation like Google, which receives thousands of unsolicited resumes every day, Big Data may play a role in searching for engineering talent or even line managers. However, Big Data will never replace the human skill to deftly evaluate the “ambiguous and amorphous set of characteristics” you need in your CFO. This is where Arnold Partners comes in. In today’s connected world it’s not hard to find a CFO, it’s hard to find the right CFO. Let me show you how I can help ─ contact Dave Arnold at 408-205-7373 or moc.srentrapdlonra@evad.
There are many qualities that my clients look for in a CFO. Obviously, significant experience and domain expertise in all things financial are high on the list. Some clients may focus on public company CFO experience or a specific industry may be more important at times. However, one quality EVERY company should demand in their executive leadership is gravitas. But how do you go about determining if a candidate has it?
Gravitas Defined
Last week I attended a workshop on personal branding sponsored by the San Jose Business Journal and led by Karen Leland, principal of the Sterling Marketing Group. (Please see her contact information below.) Karen laid out six specific attributes that make up gravitas. Here’s how I describe it: gravitas in the corporate world is like statesmanship in the political world. It’s having the confidence and consistent performance that commands respect, and inspires others to move forward together. Some people have it, some don’t, and others can develop it.
Who’s Got It?
CEOs may say that they feel the gravitas of a person on an instinctual level. I have heard the phrase: so and so fills up the room with his or her presence. But it is much more than just presence; it entails several distinct attributes that can and should be evaluated in detail throughout the hiring process.
In a recent study by the Center for Talent Innovation, author Sylvia Ann Hewlett presents some fascinating findings on executive presence. Almost 70% of those surveyed respondents hold gravitas as the top quality they are looking for in their leaders. This calls out for a deep dive into understanding what it is, and what one do to strengthen this intangible and somewhat nebulous quality. If you are a CEO, CFO or aspiring C-suite professional, not only should you read Hewlett’s report, I recommend you take a personal inventory of the three key qualities identified in the study which lead to ideal executive presence: Communications, Appearance, and Gravitas.
Finding Gravitas
I believe what holds back most people from the C-suite is oftentimes the lack of gravitas – not technical ability or political acumen. It can be evaluated by an expert interviewer if he or she knows what to look for, and what questions to ask.
I welcome your comments: what’s your take on gravitas if you are thinking about how to hire a CFO? I would love to converse on this capital topic.
To find out more about the process I use to evaluate a candidate’s gravitas and other qualities that constitute idea executive presence, please contact me, Dave Arnold at 408-205-7373 or moc.srentrapdlonra@evad. You can also learn some great interviewing tips from my blog post How to Interview a CFO Candidate
Also, please look for a guest blog by Karen in the weeks to come here at Arnold Partners.
Most professionals (and many recruiters!) are never really trained in How to interview a CFO candidate. They learn from trial and error how to hire a CFO, or perhaps they learn anecdotally. Unless you find yourself in a huge corporation, there may not even be a resource to help you get better at interviewing. I have hired and trained many recruiters over the last 22 years as well as interviewed hundreds of CFOs. As VP of Operations in a national recruitment practice, I co-developed a very detailed process for conducting effective interviews. Here I’ll share some insights I’ve gained on how to hire a CFO.
My Muse: Charlie Rose
Charlie Rose is the most impressive interviewer in the public domain today. He has conducted thousands of interviews with the most highly placed figures in all walks of life including heads of state, politicians, rock stars, movie stars, and business heavyweights. I don’t know how many CFOs he has interviewed (probably a few), but I do know that his style is one that ALL interviewers should learn from. Part of what makes him unique is his ability to truly listen.
The old adage in sales is to listen twice as much as you speak. This holds doubly true with interviews. If the interviewer is doing all the talking, how can he/she learn about the interviewee? Charlie is a master of this. His follow-on questions are sublime. He has a script of questions at the onset of every interview, but depending on the answer, he is quick to change gears and ask an appropriate follow-on question. He can only do this by keenly listening. He is also a master of getting people to answer the question. Many of his guests are good at not giving a direct answer, but Charlie won’t let them off the hook. Watch his interviews with the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for inspiration, such as:
The New York Times has a twice-weekly column, “The Corner Office.” Each article is an interview with a CEO. Excellent information is exchanged, and in most cases the CEO is asked about his interviewing style. I am fascinated by the lack of consistency in how CEOs interview (which supports my point that people aren’t trained to interview), and the excellent questions CEOs ask candidates. This column is no substitute for interviewing training, but can help you formulate probing questions.
I recently had the pleasure of spending some time in Paris and took a class at the Alain Ducasse School of Cooking. Monsieur Ducasse has built an empire and amassed numerous Michelin stars at his restaurants around the world. One of his protégés actually taught the course I took─conducted 100% in French! While my primary interest was acquiring skills in technique for the kitchen, I was surprised that as I julienned and sautéed, I gained fresh insights on the executive search process for hiring a CFO.
Preparation is the Key in Cooking and in Executive Search
The French say that before you start cooking you must be in a state of “mis en place,” loosely translated as “having everything in its place.” The course was Bistro cooking, meaning a simple meal well prepared. Of course, nothing could be simple in the world of Ducasse. Just as no hiring process is simple; whether you are hiring a junior accountant or a CFO one thing remains true: you need to know what you are looking for BEFORE you start looking. Mis en place! Mais oui, Chef!
An important part of my process when hiring a CFO for a client is first, to truly understand what they are looking for, and second, to help the client understand what they should be looking for. The discovery in this phase of the process goes beyond identifying the obvious skills of a CFO; it gets to the heart of the culture of the company, its growth plan, where the blind spots of the CEO are, how dynamics at the Board level affect the CFO hire, and more. This deep dive is the necessary prep work before any cooking can start. It is not trivial and must be approached systematically so when the real work begins the result is a timely, targeted, and effective search.
Three Hour Prep for Two Course Lunch Pays Off
We spent about three hours prepping a two-course lunch consisting of a white and green asparagus salad followed by a veal tenderloin with a green pea sauce. All the heavy lifting was in the prep. Once we got to “plating” and then the enjoyment of the meal, it was clear to me why we spent so much time in the prep.
When you are hiring a CFO and are presented with a slate of candidates for consideration, you are going to be happy with the results because the prep work goes on every day of the year at Arnold Partners, and the customization for your specific needs will not be short-changed. Prep, prep, prep. Mais oui, Chef!
Let’s get cookin’ on your CFO hire. I’ve got the recipe for success. Contact me at moc.srentraPdlonrA@evaD.
I read with great interest a LinkedIn post by Lou Adler, the self-proclaimed “Original Headhunter” about how to how to avoid hiring mistakes. As a long-time executive search consultant and former hiring manager, avoiding mistakes is paramount for me and my CEO clients.
Lou made some excellent points about cultural fit, not over or under hiring, assigning appropriate tasks once the new hire is on board, etc. However, he failed to mention a common hiring practice: the misuse of references. It just so happened that this practice was the subject of a lunch conversation I had with a CEO a few days after reading Lou’s post.
The CEO was not having success in hiring a senior finance person. Rather than using references early in the process to gain an objective, outside view of a candidate, she made the mistake of using the references after she made up her mind about who to hire. The reference merely validated her decision. When used correctly, references are a very valuable tool to uncover the truth about candidates before making a hiring decision.
When and How to Check References?
This business is a bit tricky. Say you are learning how to hire a CFO and are courting a new candidate to your company, a woman currently the CFO of a public company. You can hardly start calling official or backdoor references prior to a serious intent to hire. Let’s lower the bar: say you are courting a CFO who is currently in between assignments…when is it ok to start the reference checking process?
A Two-Edged Sword to Swing Carefully
In the somewhat small halls of Sand Hill Road, everyone’s references are quietly checked all the time.
In hiring a CFO, the reference process is a delicate and infinitely important one. There isn’t a hard and fast rule for when and how to check references. It needs to be considered on a case by case basis. But one thing I will recommend: don’t make the mistake of waiting to check references until the very end of your hiring process. You’ll just validate your view of the candidate, or waste a lot of your time and that of your executive team.
For those interested in understanding how to hire a CFO, I also recommend hiring a third party to execute on finding the truth about anyone you’re thinking about adding to your team. This will take the emotion out of the equation. If you have comments or want to share your thoughts on how to hire a CFO, please email me, Dave Arnold, at moc.srentrapdlonra@evador call 408-205-7373.
Now that you’ve learned how to avoid these common pitfalls, are you ready to dive into the complicated issue of industry experience? Read more on my post “Industry Experience: Key in CFO Search?“
I get asked about industry experience a lot by CEOs, CFOs, and Investors. My answer always stimulates a passionate discussion.
Two recent, high-profile CFO appointments shed light on the issue.
Ken Goldman (63) was hired by Yahoo! and Marissa Mayer (38) to help resurrect this great entity. What is Yahoo! anyway? Simply put, it’s a digital media company, but it has trouble explaining that in an elevator pitch. I suppose it’s many things, and it’s sitting on a big pile of cash! How does Ken fit in from an industry experience perspective? Ken started his career in semiconductors (Cypress), moved to software (Seibel), then to the famed @Home, then back to security software (Fortinet). You could make a case that @Home and Yahoo! have some similarities, but on the surface, it doesn’t seem like a natural transition or fit for Ken.
Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg (29) hired David Ebersman (42) from Genentech to be his CFO. Despite what Andrew Ross Sorkin wrote about David after the “debacle” of Facebook’s IPO (NY Times, Sept 3, 2012), I would hold him up to be one of the best CFOs in the Valley. It’s not immediately clear that Genentech has much in common with Facebook either.
Why two major internet players went “outside” their industries to hire CFOs
The decision has more to do with the character and quality of the CFOs than what was on the spec. Marissa and Mark probably asked everyone they knew who is the best CFO in the Valley. The same names kept coming up and they went out and got them. In the case of Yahoo!, they paid a pretty penny too.
So you think your company is the next Facebook or Yahoo! — after all, your investors just valued your company at $B+. (Even though you may or may not have revenue). Who should you try to attract to be your CFO: the person with the best industry experience on their resume, or the perceived best CFO?
Adding up the numbers in the CFO search
In executive search, the starting point should be clear. The spec is written with clear goals in mind that are derived from careful listening to the CEO and BOD. This spec will generally include the desired industry experience. But at the end of the day, the spec may be less important if you are able to attract the very best athlete. This goes to the heart of the matter of masterful recruiting, and why sometimes one plus one might not equal two. Call me, Dave Arnold, to discuss this further at: 408-205-7373.
